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View Full Version : Needing some info on dogs before I buy one


NWMOhunter
03-03-2003, 10:56 PM
I'm needing some info on dogs before I buy one. I own a German Shorthair which I have trained solely and she does awesome. She will point birds, is an excellent retriever and will even retrieve waterfowl.

I'm in the market for a lab to take hunting. Most all around here sell for like $250 and I'd guess most don't come from heavy hunting backgrounds. I see stuff about getting eyes and hips certified and all that. What exactly is entailed in the certification process? Can you get eyes and hips certified if previous generations weren't certified?

What I'm ideally looking for is a bloodline I can use to ultimately breed and train and sell pups out of. I gave $350 for my Shorthair and she is an awesome hunter. She comes from mainly field trial lines and I know she will make an excellent dog for any hunter if I could just find the right stud to breed her with.

dukdog7
03-04-2003, 07:29 AM
NWMOHunter

You are probably right about those dogs not coming from heavy hunting backgrounds. I would say the best place to start looking would be from a breeder in your area with a good reputation. Look for a breeding from a dam and sire with titles, either UKC or AKC, which ever you prefer or find. This will generally show you if the pups will have the qualities you are looking for, ie. trainability, drive, desire, and also desired genetic qualities.

As far as the certification of hips and eyes is concerned, most quality breeders require hip and eye certification before breeding. If both dam and sire are cerf. then it is very likely pups will pass as well. Many breeders will even provide you a guarantee for hips and eyes upon purchase.

In my experience a litter from a HRCH breeding will bring around $400 - $700 depending on color preference.

Good Luck. Hope this helps

NWMOhunter
03-04-2003, 09:50 AM
I didn't know that price varied by color preference. Which colors typically go for more? I'm wanting a chocolate. Black would be my 2nd choice and then yellow. One guy I know has a lab that looks oragish/red which he said is a chocolate variation. I've also seen white labs, but they came from Germany and were police drug dogs.

Where should I start my search for a reputible breader?

Nevada Jim
03-04-2003, 10:48 AM
NWM ... Allow me to clear up a few misconceptions for you.

The OFA hip and elbow certifications are done on the sire and bitch, not the pup. You in turn can and should have your pup certified later after it's two years old, if you intend to beed him as you indicated. More info here ... http://www.offa.org/ofainfo.html

CERF is the Canine Eye Registration Foundation and again, very important that your pup's parents are both CERF cleared. More info here ... http://www.vet.purdue.edu/~yshen/cerf.html

Your friend who has a "oragish/red which he said is a chocolate variation" is mistaken. That's called "Fox Red" and is actually a variant pigmentation of the yellow.

Look at this Female yellow, Laurie, a fox red Lab owned by Cray Stephenson, a pro breeder and trainer from KY. http://www.angelfire.com/wv/creightonkennels/images/Lapoint.jpg

As far as your other comment ... "I've also seen white labs, but they came from Germany and were police drug dogs" ... White is also a yellow color variant. Here's a dawg from a Utah litter that I personally selected as a pup and sent to a friend in Idaho. How much whiter would you like, hehe.

http://www.peakdigitalpro.com/pers/072002trainingcollage.jpg

Back to your question about price of pups. I paid $1,000 for my 7 week old pup from Sunyview Labs in Salem, OR. I wanted a pup from that particular breeder and a specific litter, and was willing to pay the upper end of the range for a puppy to get what I wanted. There are many fine blood lines where genetics can be great as either a test/trial background or just superb hunter parents and not have to spend more than $400-$600 for a pup.
Just please keep in mind that the difference between a $400 pup and one costing $1,000 is $600 over a 12 year average hunting lifetime. That's $50 a year, $4 per month or roughly 14 cents per day to stack the odds in your favor of having a genetic defect-free dawg that will serve you well over the next 12 years. The purchase price is the LEAST expensive part of the dawg's cost over its career.

TAKE-EM
03-06-2003, 07:45 PM
Pic Of My Almost White Lab

dukdog7
03-07-2003, 09:07 AM
Take-em

I would be interested to know what the dam and sire coat colors were for your dog. And did they have titles. I have seen many variations of colors, in fact the dam to my BFL is alomst cornfield color. Beautiful dog. I have a draining buddy who worked a female "white" lab and he said she was a good dog but did not have the drive of others. Did not know what the temperment is of this color or if you have seen the same qualities.

Just curious.

PS Great pic. Nice looking pup. Congrats on the FF work. She seems to have the picture. How is the rest of the training coming along.

Chuck

TAKE-EM
03-07-2003, 06:56 PM
Duckdog 7,
My dog is a Male 11 months old now. He is out of www.candlewoodkennels.com in Portage, Wisc. His name is Candlewoods Boomer Reign. His sire and dam were both black. There were 4 light yellows, 2 med to dark yellows, and one black in his litter. The yellows were all males and the black female. I had 3rd pick on the yellow males. I had a choice out of 6 litters and chose his litter because of his pedigree. His pedigree has 3 NFC's, 1 NAFC, 7 FC's, 8 AFC's, 3 MH's. 1 JH, and derby and qualify all in 3 generations. I paid $800 for him and he is worth every penny. Boomer's sire is (FC Fox-C's Take It To The Bank) his Dam is (Candlewood's TNT) with (Derby PTs and Qualify placements). Boomer's Great Grand Sire and Dam, on the Dam's side, are NAFC FC AFC Trumarc's Zip Code and 3xNFC FC AFC Candlewoods Tanks A Lot (AKC Hall Of Fame).

Boomer is very easy to train. He is an excellent marker, very birdy and has high octane. He can also calm down enough to live in our home. Boomer is doing double marks, hand signals, sit to whistle, etc. I will have him in hunt tests and possible field trials in the near future. I have trained him myself. I am joining a retriever club and will work with him in club events , etc. He will also share many a duck blind this season with me! He is everything I could ever want in a Lab!

Blueduck
03-08-2003, 06:08 PM
nice pic Take-em. I have a female that looks identical to him.

Sandy
03-11-2003, 12:13 PM
First of all, go back and read Nevada Jim's post. Great post w/a wealth of info!

Second, keep in mind one thing - it takes basically the same "basic" training program to train a waterfowl dog you'd be proud to have in any blind, an AKC ****** Hunter, a UKC Grand ****** or an AKC Field Trial Champ! It all begins the same and continues through hand casts, blind retrieves, quads, etc...

BUT, the one thing all these dogs have in common is background. They ALL come from proven bloodlines that have shown they are trainable. There are pups out there that are registered and cheap ($250, etc...) with no FT/HT titles in their backgrounds, no hunting experience, just pet dogs. And then there are dogs that run upwards of $1000+ based on their pedigrees. And there is a reason for this. IMHO, you can take a FT/HT pup and make a super duck dog out of it (you don't have to run FT/HT) but its mighty darn difficult to take a "pet" dog and make it on the ****** or All-Age level. And when it comes to hunting, wouldn't you rather have a pup that comes from PROVEN parents, dogs that you KNOW have smelled and retrieved ducks, been in duck blinds, trained in cold weather, etc...

All pups are not created equal but w/a small amount of time invested in researching backgrounds you can start out beyond the average. If you are looking for a hunting PARTNER, and that is exactly what a retriever is, give it your all prior to purchase and then for the first year or two, train as much as possible. After all, that pup is gonna be hunting w/you for many years! Don't look at the initial investment, look at the longterm returns! Good luck!

Nevada Jim
03-11-2003, 02:35 PM
Sandy ... My yellar Cappy was only the 2nd dawg of 8 in my 61 year lifetime that I bought sight unseen. My 11 year old Llewellin Setter was the 1st.

Whether you're spending $100 or $1,000 for a pup doesn't really matter ... you will be spending YOUR time, effort and hope & dreams over a number of years with that new dawg so stack the odds in your favor to the greatest degree possible.

The pedigree, the parents health clearances and reference checks on the the breeder from prior litter buyers will serve you well. Who among us can really select the "best" pup from a litter of 8 or more?

The owner of Sunnyview Labs where Cappy came from understood through numerous phone conversations what I wanted in a pup and why, and how I intended to hunt and compete with mine. I allowed him to pick the pup for me.
Here's Cappy late last season, just over 4 years of age, and his intensity, enthusiasm and balls to the wall love of hunting hasn't diminished one drop ...