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glider
09-10-2003, 04:49 PM
hey guys
i have a 5 mon yellow male who is doing awesome except retrieving on land he will go get the dummy after i send him but just wants to play it and not bring it back sometimes. the weird thing is if its in the water he bring it directly to hand and then drop it. he is even doing short doubles through decoys and brings right back heels sits down and looks at me and wants more. in water i wear out throwing dummies before he is ready to quit. when i start walking away he sits there just waiting for me to throw again. he knows sit, stay, and come by voice and whistle and obeys except when he retrieves on land. should i start force fetching at this age yet or is there anymore suggestions if so they would be greatly appreciated.

JK
09-11-2003, 07:43 AM
no...FF should be implemented when your pups adult teeth are fully developed. usually that occurs around 6 months of age. so, with that said, you have a month or two to prepare yourself for FF. educate yourself as much as possible because FF will bring lots of questions and tons of frustrations...usually. training times vary from 10 days to 2 or 3 months on FF depending on your pup. a lot of folks integrate many different programs to develop one program that they like...personally, i would try to pick one program that you like and stick with it! it will keep you from getting confused. in a nut shell your program should proceed as follows...if your dog has already completed a good obdience program: 1) HOLD 2) EAR PINCH FETCH FROM HAND 3) EAR PINCH FETCH (progress towards the groung until you reach the ground) 4) WALKING FETCH 5) STICK FETCH. each step should be developed completely before moving on to the next step with the exception of hold. you can further develop hold as you progress through the program. once you begin the FF program, dont stop until you are completely finished. the key to FF is to force your pup to fetch!! if he/she learns to get oout of pressure, it will manipulate you. be stern and DO NOT give in. you dont have to abuse your dog, but sometimes its borderline on a stubborn dog.:Art:

i have damn near every retriever training book and video on the market (at least the most popular ones) and i would highly recommend john and amy dahl's "ten minute retriever". you can checkout their website for free FF program info [url]www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force.html

also, if you are serious about training your pup to a fully developed retriever invest in mike lardy's video set. four videos can get you through the entire program 1) 3 set Total Retriever Training with mike lardy 2) mike lardy's e-collar conditioning video.
this four video set will cost about $200 total, BUT it is the best program in the world. most of his methodology comes from the great rex archer and his associates. the costs are high...but look at it this way. the cheapest thing about getting a retriever is purchasing him. good luck! be patient! be stern...dont get mad!

jake

Yellardawg
09-11-2003, 08:14 AM
Jake is correct. It isn't time for FF. physically he needshis adult teeth...mentally it is hard to judge the maturity of a pup over the internet. I sometimes wait until 7-10 months on FF because I don't feel the pup is mature enough mentally.

As for him not returning on land, do you use a check cord? Every time that you tell him to come to you and you don't make him, then he learns that command is a request and is optional. Make a very long check cord and use it to reel him in when he blows you off.

shootem
09-11-2003, 08:52 AM
glider you have gotten some very good information. Always have a check cord on a young dog. I would like to add remember he is only five months old. Back off the retrieving some. DON"T over do the retrieving, Never try and wear out a young dog. At his age 5 or 6 water retrieves is penalty, keep it fun short and enjoyable. If you over do it now it WILL turn around and bite you in the long run. The Ten Minute Retriever is an excellent book.

JK
09-11-2003, 10:32 AM
i forgot to mention...you might consider using a wooden dowel (8" long or so) to begin FF especially in the initial stages of ear pinching. this will allow your pup to associate the "bad" stuff with the dowel instead of a dummy or bird. once he is responding correctly, you can transfer over to the dummy...gradually. this CAN (but not always) help you and your dog get through FF without too much lag time on marks. pup can associate dummies and birds with fun stuff like retrieving, while FF in the yard can be very demanding and physical. sometimes dog quit retrieving during FF...this is common...so dont panic if it happens to you. pups are like kids. trust your program and follow it religiously. youll be amazed about the outcome as you graduate into different levels of retrieving.

jake

glider
09-11-2003, 01:26 PM
thanks guys,
i need all the advice i can get and looks like i got some good advise. JK you said make retrieving short workouts but what if he isnt ready to quit and wants to keep working. i have a female also that is 1 and half and she does good when i let the two of them play at the pond with dummies if she gets close to him when he is retrieving he just starts growling. when he gets dun running he is ready for work no matter when it is. he is strictly buisness and just wants to be with me and please.

shootem
09-11-2003, 01:48 PM
Quitting when he wants more is perfect, always try to end the day on a positive note. It is best not to let the two dogs play together to much. They may start bonding to each other more than to you. When the dogs are young you should train and play with them separately so all their attention and focus is with you.

JK
09-11-2003, 02:38 PM
shootem is right about quiting when the pup wants more. this will help create eagerness for the next session. try to end on a positive note. set your pup up for success...teach him, educate him as if you are holding his hand through the initial stages of an exercise. he will get it eventually. just be consistent and patient. consistency is the key.

jake

glider
09-11-2003, 04:35 PM
thanks guys,
great info and greatly appreciated. the best of luck in hunting seasons this year.

Levi


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