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rustygunner
12-29-2003, 01:51 PM
:CF: Well I have a 11 month old choco lab female that comes from strong Hunt test lines and i have stuck about 4 months of professional training in her. Since i have had her back over the Fall i have had problems with her ability to take commands, she seems skidish and always worried about me and what my next move will be, example making her whisle stop, over commands and back commands. Its got even worse today when i gave her a simple double mark. As she was heading out to the frist bird she seemsed to be worried if i was going to shock her, which in the past i have never givin her much heat because of her softness, nor has the trainer.
After discussing the problems wtih the trainer, which he witnessed, it jsut seems that me and my dog are not a good fit together.
THis problems has been going on since October when i took her pheasent hunting and she refused to pick up the birds. I took her back to the trainer and he had her fetching up pheasants like a machine, but when i came around she forgot all about it.
I am coming to the point that it is time to sell this dog and move on, she just has it in her mind not to preform for me in the field. Not more than 2 weeks ago she took a 3rd place at a puppy trial, granted its just a puppy trial but she has it in her, i just seem to make it worse for her.
Am i makeing the right move?

JK
12-30-2003, 08:58 AM
:CF: hmmm...sounds like your dog doesnt trust you yet. a few questions?...do you keep her inside with you at night? did you bond with your dog properly when she was a pup? what is she like when you guys are at home just hangin out? ive had one dog do a similar thing (he's my current dog), and he came out of it by persistant training...especially collar conditioning. BUT, he's a chesapeake! so, its a little different. what does your trainer say?

jake

chcltlabz
12-30-2003, 11:28 AM
Yep, sounds to me like you need some serious bonding time with the dog, and don't even put that collar on her until she tells you she's ready, or not even at all. Every dog is different, and I'm convinced that not every dog will take to collar conditioning.

I would start by spending the rest of the off season bonding with your dog. Take her everywhere, and really make her trust you. Once you build up that trust, you can start with working up to more advanced stuff.

I wouldn't get rid of her, but that's your choice. I personally like a softer dog, because I've found that they're easier to train with a light hand, but that all has to start with sincere trust in you and a desire to please you. To a softer dog, pleasing you will be his only motivation, and you won't need the collar.

rustygunner
12-30-2003, 06:09 PM
Thanks for the info, i am leaving for new years and i guess that is going to be my resolution this year, that is spend alot of time with her. Can i still work her, but lay off the collar for now? I was planning on running jr's with her this spring. She is a great dog and i talk to my wife last night about it. I brought up the idea of selling her, but if i did i think i would need a new home:PO:
I spent everyday with her when she was a pup,when i got her i took 20 days off so i could crate train her and get her to know me...when i would vist her during her training she would go nutz to see me... but it seems that when i raise my voice around her she just rolls into a ball and seems confused about what she did, i never got after her...the only time she was gone was for four months at the trainers.

what type of training sould i do with her? just simple stuff....single marks, ....??
I now my trainer say she needs alot of attention to get her fired up to run...she has tone of energy...love to play and gets ruff with my other pup..a 6mth black lab male...

During the day when i am at work she spends the time out in her run...i work 24hr shifts..so my wife air's her at night with my other 2 dogs and she spends the night in the basement sleeping in here chair..
Like a said i spend about 15min twice a day on my off days working with her... and when i am not training i let them run
around the yard..she loves to play...she's a great dog....ton's of drive...she full of it...
rusty....i hope i did not ruin her...i dont think i could bring myself to sell her...she my first pup...
My trainer thinks that we are just not clicking...that she has something in her mind about me and she is not over it....he says its common in brown dogs...their harder to train..takes more time...chesee's and choc labs...they are a funny breed...he thinks that i should move on.. and cut my loses...she would make someone a great hunting dog..
I am confused....:CF:

PondRiver
12-30-2003, 09:01 PM
Rusty,

Sounds to me, by what you are saying, that she is confused. Being 11 months old and expecting her to take hand casts and other commands to perfection is TOUGH on any dog at that age without training everyday. And if you only spend 15 minutes a day x2, is really not alot. With you being a non-pro trainer, I would do as much time training her as you could, just keep it up beat, positive and fun. I would also keep her away from other dogs for a long period of time. They will build up a bond between them, just like you 2 will. You want the bond with you, not with your other dogs.
If you just got her back form the trainer and tried to do alot with her fast it probably confused her. There is always an adjustment period when ever you drop a dog off at the trainers and even when you pick the dog up.
If she just got out of OB, CC, FF, & FTP, she has been pretty broke down. Now is the time for alot of real bird marks to build her back up.
Then you talk about the collar. Not trying to be a jerk, but how many dogs have you trained? With/out a collar? Have you been trained by your trainer? If she is that skiddish with you only, and not your trainer, it might be a trust thing or you have confused her by doing something different than your trainer. That is the reason for my questions.
Whatever happens with you and her, good luck. But just remember, she is still a 11 month old puppy. Patience my friend. Dogs are like humans, all learn at a different way, time, and age.

Good luck on the journey, It is just beginning!

PondRiver
:wak: :wak:

rustygunner
12-30-2003, 10:06 PM
Well first of all, i haven't been using the e-collar to shock her, my trainer told me just to run it with her so she gets familiar with it. I dont fell that i know enouth yet to correct her with it... as far as training, i train with the trainer everyday i have off..he is a good friend of mine and has helped me out with my pitfalls i have had with her...I keep the training upbeat...use pigeons for marks and an occational mallard...i understand that she is not responding to me the best...I have to remind myself that she is only 11months and it takes along time to get her retreiving to a higer level..i am not a protrainer, i am learning as i go...i make mistakes..but i learn from them...from all of you who have taken your time to get back to me..i learn from you and that is why i am asking these questions..it makes me fell better that you guys leave me advice..this is my first dog...that i am training and i plan on using her for many years..
thanks much and keep the advise coming...

Do i need to keep all my dogs seperate...When i train i make 2 seperate trips so i only have one dog...is that correct...my little guy is jsut starting sit, heel and hold ...i am using the 10min retreiver book as a guide..sould i let the 2 dogs play with each other..

Ruff
12-31-2003, 02:56 PM
Rusty

I think the others nailed it pritty good that the dog is just confused and unsure of what you want. Making a correction with the e-collar at the wrong time might have started this. Time is your best friend so spend it with the pup and get that bond back that you had before the trainer got the pup. Some things to check are. Are you using the same comands the trainer used? Are you using the same arm movements when casting?

I am using this as an example only. My dogs are sent on their name for a mark and I use "here" to call them back. Well while hunting one day a friend got a bird and I told him to call Cody to him to get his bird on the retrieve. Heres what he did he said Cody here, Cody here. Do you pick up on what he was doing? Think about this for a minute before reading onto my explination.
He was giving two Comands to the dog at the same time. By saying "Cody" he was releasing the dog then at the same time "here" calling him back. The funny thing is my dog just sat down holing the bird waiting for my bud to make his mind up on what he wanted.

Spend some time with your trainer and have him pay attention to you not the dog as you are working it. Most problems with dogs are handler errors and not the dogs specificly. Dogs don't understand the humane language. They go off of key words Here, sit, Back, Cody. I dont use stay as sit means sit till your released.

You can take both dogs to train but only take one out at a time to train and give each one time with you and training. I would not let them romp together at this point till the older dog has it's kinks worked out and is more understanding of you.

Ruff
12-31-2003, 03:12 PM
Rusty

You know what I just reread your second post and your trainer needs an attitude adjustment!! I dont know what you spent for 4 months of training and for him to tell you to cut your losses and move on is "Hog Wash" He should have told you that after 5 to 8 weeks of having the dog if things wer'nt going to click with this pup.

If I were you being you have I'm guessing at the low end $1600.00 plus birds in training fee's contact another trainer or better yet contact a Retreiver club in your area and have them recomend a trainer and pay for a day for that trainer to spend with you and the pup and see if he has any sugestions for the two of you.

If the pup will do it for the trainer then it knows it's stuff and should do it for you.

I wish you the best!

rustygunner
01-01-2004, 06:24 PM
Ruff, I am using the same commands you are. As of yesterday i went out to the trainers and had a good talk to him about Ella and her training, I have decided to keep up the positive trainning i have been doing for the past 6 months. We gave her 3 marks and she ran them great.
I appriciate all the advise guys, thanks much!!!! Its going to be a long road but i am positive that she will become a confident dog.:TT: :wak: :TT: