223 short mag or 22-250

[kodiakhunter]

I'm thinking about buying another rifle for varmits and trying to decide between a 223 short mag and 22-250. Just wondering if anyone had any input on the subject or experience with the two guns, I've heard the 223 bullet floats a little more in wind and the shells cost a little more but thats about it.. Thanks in advanced!!!

[The Baron of Bufflehead]

First things first, I have no direct experience with the .223 WSSM. Both the .22-250 and .223 WSSM shoot the same bullets (224" diameter). Most of the cenerfire .22's (with the exception of a couple like older hornets and bees) shoot a .224 bullet. It's a common misconception that a .222 takes a .222" bullet, a .223 takes a .223", etc. A north american cartridge name is just that and doesn't necesarily reflect the specifics of component dimensions. How they buck the wind is entirely dependant on bullet selection. Heavier bullets buck wind better. So, if you want to do long distance shooting in windy country, go with a 55 gr. or maybe heavier, not a 40gr. The 40's get out of the gate fast and are devastating on little furry things out to a couple hundred yards, but they loose their momentum more quickly and velocities actually fall behind the heavier bullets at longer ranges. With factory loads, both cartridges launch a 55gr. bullet at about 3850 fps (according to manufacturer info) so, ballistically, they are virtually identical (same bullets, same speed). It's the bullet that kills, not the brass case, so how the bullet got launched is immaterial.

If you want a sexy new cartridge to talk about around the lunch table, the .223 WSSM is certainly one. Drawbacks will be availability of ammunition and, likely, slightly more cost for factory ammo (only guessing there). If you handload, your ammo, choices for either cartridge becomes almost unlimited. As long as you lay in a suppy of .223 WSSM brass, all other components (primers, powder choices, bullets) are same as any other hot 22 CF and are readily available. It has been said that the shorter, fatter cartridges can be inheritantly more efficient/accurate. But, I think it's safe to say the benefits would be negligable unless you're shooting for world record scores on the target range with a custom bench rest gun.

If you don't handload, the big advantage goes to the .22-250. There is a huge selection of factory ammo choices for .22-250 and ammo is very commonly obtainable. If you wander into a hardware store in the boonies, odds are they'll have a few boxes of .22-250, but it's much less likely they'll have the short mag stuff.

My choice would probably be .22-250, just because I don't have time to handload much these days. But, if a buddy got a .223 WSSM, I'd certainly be interested to check it out!

Whatever you buy, you'll have a lot of fun. An accurate rifle in a hot .22 CF is a great toy! Have fun choosing- that's the best part.:cool:

[bdog]

I was in the exact same boat a while back wanting to purchase either a 223 wssm or 22-250 for varmints and I ended up getting a 243 wsssm. You can get the 243 wssm factory ammo from 55 grain to 100 grain bullets. At 55 grains in the 243 wssm is the fastest factory produced round if I am not mistaken. I know it is faster than a 22-250 and a 223 wssm. The only thing that is close is a 220 swift if I remember right. The other advantage to the 243 is that with the 100 grain bullets you can use it on larger game.

[The Baron of Bufflehead]

If the 6mm option is on the table, a hot one like .243 WSSM would offer a lot more versatility than a .22. A big improvement in long range punch on larger varmints like 'yotes, as well as much improved wind bucking power with the longer bullets (75gr+). If you want to hunt deer sized game with the same gun, it's certainly capable. The drawbacks would be more noise and recoil and more expensive per shot, if you want to do high volume varmint shooting. Also, if you have big plans to shoot pelts with the gun (fox and coyote) you'll find a .24 makes big, nasty holes on both sides. I shot a 'yote with a .243 and hot load of 75 gr. Speer HP and it made an awful mess of the fur. With a .22, you can load a 40gr. up hot and (as I have read, but never experienced first hand) get no exit on coyotes, meaning minimal pelt damage.

[Flocknocker]

The thing about the 22-250 is it was designed right from the get go. It has a 28 degree shoulder that lines the case up and causes less gas disturbance than others do, meaning the 22-250 will shoot about anything very well all the time. If you hand load you will have no trouble finding a load that works and same for factory loads. I used to make damn good money shooting song dogs for the pelts along with a few bob cats. I shoot 38 grains of H-380 with a mag primer for the cold and a Speer 53 grain boat tail hollow point match bullet. This load has never came out of a yote so there is little pelt damage and it kills like things were struck by lightning, it turns them dogs to mush. My buddy shoots a hornaday 50 something grain V-max bullets and has the same deal, it is a nice bullet also but you have to have the speed to frag it. I have 3 22-250's and have had or have about all the 224 cal guns the 22-250 is heads above the most reliable one of them all IMHO. The slower 224.s will give you pass through on pelts because they don't generate enough speed to frag the bullets and the faster 220 swift is a bitch to tame down to make accurate, you have to really work on loads to find the sweat spot. All of my 22-250's will shoot a dime size group at 200 yards. While some other guns have shoulder angles that make them pretty wild and some like the 220 swift will eat barrels up pretty fast because of this gas turbulence, I had a Ruger with less that 1000 rounds in it and it was shot out, of coarse I will take some of the blame because I had it loaded to be a real flame thrower.

I would recommend looking for some varmint forums and seeing what is hot right now. I have not looked for new things for a long time because I am very happy with what I have. I am sure on some of these forum there are some guys that are really into it. With pelt prices going up I know I am looking at a new 6.5 Christensen Arms for the windy days. I think I will let the yotes pay for it like I did all my 22-250's, hehehehe.

Cliff

[The Baron of Bufflehead]

Cliff - dime sized groups at 200 yards is awesome. I can only assume your 250's have been tuned up, because there aren't many that will do that out of the box. Are they bedded (glass or pillar), tuned triggers, lapped rings, and all that jazz? I'm an old rifle crank, so I'm always interested. Surely, there must have been hours at the bench in your day, because even with a good rifle it takes a well practised shooter to point them that straight! I used to shoot a lot and got my 788 in .222 all tuned up and shooting in the low .3's consistently at 100 and turned up a few .5's at 200, but the wind played havoc with me on the longer ranges with such a "slow" .22.

Further to Cliff's statements about needing the speed to keep pelt damage to a minimum, here's an intersting example. A few years back when I spent more time shooting little furry things (as opposed to feathered things) a buddy and I were asked by a farmer to exterminate some porcupines from his woodlot. This guy had some serious damage hapening and we were always happy to have a target, so in we went. We lucked upon a pair in a tree and I shot one with my .222 and my buddy shot the other with his .220 swift. The one I hit with a 50gr. Vmax going about 3200 fps had a big, nasty, shallow hole in it. If it had been a fur bearer, it would have been ruined. The one hit with the swift, which was throwing a 50 gr. at about 3700+ hit the ground with out a viible mark on it. I was confused as heck at how little damage the shot did. My bud just laughed and picked up his porky by a leg and shook it. That thing was like a bag of mush with all legs broken. Before that, I figured the swift would have blown things apart, but the bullet was going so fast it disintegrated inside.

[kirsch]

I have owned most of the varmint calibers over the years. I have shot lots and lots of coyotes, fox, coons, prairie dogs and the like.

All depends on what you are trying to shoot. For instance if you are a pelt hunter, then the 22-250 is a pelt killer. It is one of my favorite calibers and is my 2nd choice for a varmint caliber but causes lots of fur damage.

The .223 is a good choice all around especially for cheap ammo, but in my opinion is isn't as good of a round as the 22-250 and is still too damaging to be a great fur round. So if you only have the budget to buy one it might be OK on all accounts but isn't the best in any except for maybe cheap brass.

My winner for an all-around varmint caliber is a .17rem. They shoot crazy fast, have little to no kick, ballistically are very good although they get a bad wrap for major drift issues (which are over-dramatized) and animals drop in their tracks. People tell me all the time that this is too small for coyotes and this is a joke. I have yet to lose a coyote and personally, I have seen far less movement after the shot when hit with my .17 than with my 22-250. Now if you shoot them in the butt or hit a bone, it can be trouble, but this is the case with the 22-250 as well.

Lastly, the .17 has the unique ability to explode on the inside of an animal. I have shot tons of loads for other varmint calibers that say they will one exit but there is always so many issues and there is always the chance of the grenade hole on entry or exit. I have yet to pick up an animal after shooting them with the .17, that shows any shot damage except a spot of blood. Little to no hole, but the animal absolutely explodes on the inside. I have seen people try to use a 22-250 or .223 using 35 grain bullets thinking it would be the same, and it isn't.

If you need more brainwashing, go to Coyote Gods.com and you will see tons of the best varmint hunters in the world rave about the .17rem. There are other guns they talk about but the real avid ones seem to eventually stick with the .17. FYI this is no spam as I have no affiliation with that site.

I currently own a 22-250 and a .17. The 22-250 shoots too good to get rid of but I shoot my .17rem 90% of the time for all varmints.

[rwilkes]

22-250 the way to go.

I have a Weatherby Super Varmit Master 22-250. It is the best varmit gun that i have ever owned. I have shot .223, .220 swift and .243 also and in my opinion the 22-250 was my favorite. The 220 swift was second the only drawback was that my barrel seemed to heat up quite a bit when shooting lots of rounds through it ( prarie dogs).

[sewerat]

I agree with kirsch on the .17, just not if you are looking at the new hmrs go for the .17 rem and you will love it, i was loading rounds that flew about 4200 out of mine and it was a killer on fox and coyote, the gun was incredibly light and could be shouldered on a full days hike without and problems at all. The first yote i took with it was close to 300 out from me and when i had it pelted it had 3 holes in it out of 5 shots taken at it and when i got to it it was stone dead,. I have hunted with alot of guys with 223's and 22-250's and most of their yotes are dead but usually missing some body parts when it comes pelting time. personally id go for a sako .17rem with a great big leaupold on top :Bn: :st:

[kirsch]

You are right Sewerat as I was talking about the .17Rem as well. People don't know what they are missing if they haven't shot this little baby. The only issue with the .17Rem is there isn't that many factory loads around and I really had to play around with my hand-loads to get them to shoot consistently in all kinds of temp. conditions. Could just be my gun but it was far more touchy than my 22-250. Anyway, I will always own a .17 Rem from now on. If I had to sell all my rifles, this would be the last one to go of every gun I own.